Our political ideals are greater than us, and bestow upon us certain goods, experiences that make life worth living. Those same ideals test us, though, seeing how good we are. In the last analysis, we will be found wanting. For of those cities that were great in earlier times most have now become small, and those that were great in my time were small in the time before. Croesus, as later advisor to cyrus, saves the lydians from being completely destroyed in his wrath. Croesus is a murderous scumbag, but still somewhat human. I think the point of Herodotus telling us this story is to highlight how brutal and wanton Cyrus was.
Histories, book 8: Urania by, herodotus - read Online
To attack the king would be to divide the kingdom and invite their subjects to revolt. . They ruled the persians, Assyrians, and a number of other Asian peoples (1.102-106). Their imperial power has not only been unjust, but founded on a false confidence. One might say astyages brutality is only the honest expression of a subconscious fear, one coming from their very successes. Still, i think it safer to say that the medians acted justly in overthrowing Astyages. In certain ways, they acted prudently, as the plot was accomplished with a minimum of bloodshed. The problem of the medes keeping their freedom is bigger than any just or unjust action they take, even bigger than the fact they had an empire. The medes, in understanding how grossly unjust Astyages was, acted on a presumption of what is naturally just. No one except the craziest would call them incorrect, but the reasoning underlying ones claims to justice can and do blind one to men being the worst of animals, even when one recognizes exactly that as the problem. A thread unites all three of the above stories, setting the stage for the rise of Persia in Herodotus narrative.for
From that point on, the medes are subject to the persians. Harpagus might have had power himself, or given it to a mede, but instead he empowered Cyrus and the persians. Moreover, the search for justice costs more than can be accounted for. The medes as a whole pay for the wrong done to the chief of staff. Yet, being almost exactly right about these matters does not make astyages wise, mini just, worthy to be a ruler, or remotely human. Astyages indirectly explains the incentives that created the situation. The medes, in order to maintain their preeminence, could not afford to turn on their own.
Astyages is thoroughly despicable and disgusting. The medes are book united in their hatred toward him. Under the chief of staffs plotting, they use cyrus in Persia, the persians being subject to presentation the medes, to effect a revolt and get rid of Astyages. The medes are united in justice because of the gross injustice and tyranny of their king. They do not fight Cyrus Persian invasion for the most part, instead siding with it, capturing Astyages quickly (though Astyages finds what little time he has left ruling convenient for killing all his diviners). The former chief of staff, harpagus, confronts his old boss after all this, mocking him for becoming a slave. Astyages responds that Harpagus is the stupidest and most unjust man alive: stupidest, because you might have become king yourself, if the present circumstances are really of your making, and instead you turned over the power to someone else; most unjust if, because of that. If you had to confer the royal power on someone else rather than keep it to yourself, it would have been juster to grant that good to some mede and not to a persian. As it stands, the medes, who were not guilty in your regard, have become slaves instead of masters, and the persians, who were slaves, have become masters of the medes.
The worst abuses can come from the best intentions. What about a more natural justice? Something more respectful of humanity as a whole? A later ruler of the medes, Astyages, is warned through dreams and visions that a grandson of his will displace him (1.107). He orders his chief of staff, harpagus, to kill the child; the chief of staff passes the duty to a shepherd, who through coincidence and contrivance is able to keep the child and raise him as his own. That child, cyrus, does overthrow Astyages, but not before being discovered. As a result, well before his overthrow, Astyages has Harpagus son killed, dismembered, and fed to his own father.
Herodotus on the Greek spies in Sardes - livius
Invisible to all his people, who of necessity had to be in awe of him. The description of his fortress mirrors what was known about the cosmos at the time seven walls for seven planets, except with himself at the center (Benardete 25). Benardete comments that what deioces represents is the unjust basis of justice. Hence, the identification of justice and tyranny. Deioces could do whatever he liked behind those walls. Benardete is right, but my concern centers on what deioces achieved.
In effect, he made an immoral people moral. Were not looking at the mere establishment of law and security, as much as a women recognition of necessity turned into morality itself. Deioces put himself in a perfect position to be thought a god after his death. Iii, herodotus cynicism about freedom and morality does not only disabuse us of more conventional opinions. He is openly wondering about how we create a world based on the experience of what is good for. Both the lydians and Medes embraced empire and tyranny because it resulted in goods for them, goods no less than freedom and justice.
Deioces thus set himself to practice justice ever more and more keenly. His village noticed and appointed him judge over them. People began flocking to him in greater and greater numbers, as he was judging according to the rule of right (1.96). When he realized how dependent everyone was on him, he refused to serve any longer, as he received no profit and his own affairs were neglected. Lawlessness grew more rampant in Media than before (1.97).
The medes met, agreeing with deioces friends that they should set up a kingship, and deioces should be king. Deioces first demand was for kingly houses across the country and a bodyguard. These demands were met, enabling him to get more. A fortress upon a hill, with seven walls arranged in concentric circles. Complete privacy for the king except for messengers, shame upon anyone who laughed or spit in the royal presence. Spies and eavesdroppers everywhere, as people wrote their complaints about each other to deioces, and he would send his decisions out. His justice was exact, and he seems to have united the median nation (1.101). Deioces, in effect, made himself a god. Invisible to his friends, those like him who might be as just and able.
Podobné jako twenty Greek stories Knihy ve službě
The experience of freedom as something good is how we know it to be good. Unfortunately, this almost always means injustice toward others. Someone elses labor creates the conditions for presentation our freedom. The lydians are not shy about freedom entailing empire, and therefore fight not to be slaves of another. Ii, the next ruler Herodotus speaks of at length is deioces (1.96-101). Deioces was a mede, a clever man who had fallen in love with royal power. . Grenes translation of royal power isnt quite correct; Benardete points out what he had as eros for tyrannidos (Benardete 24-25). The medes at this time were quite a lawless people.
Even though the cavalrymen should have completely broken, they joined the fight as best they could: Indeed, as soon as the battle was joined, the very moment the horses smelled the camels and saw them, they bolted back; and down went all the hopes for. Not that, for the rest, the lydians proved cowards; for as soon as they saw how it was, they jumped down from their horses and joined battle with the persians on foot. The lydians are routed, despite keeping discipline in the worst circumstance. They do not seem to be of the same cloth as Croesus. They are imperial, report but not decadent; while tyrants over other peoples, they do exercise some virtue. They are not criminals looking to save their own skin, nor so desperate they rashly commit suicide. Indeed, i hold this their silent rallying cry: give me liberty, or give me death. Croesus puffery masks a story about how we value freedom.
Lydia left and the lydians occupied their territory, somehow also growing their numbers faster than humanly possible. When Herodotus does speak about the lydians, they are about to be destroyed. There was at the time no people in all Asia who were braver or more valiant soldiers than the lydians. Their fighting was from horseback, where they carried great lances, and they were themselves excellent horsemen (1.79). This detail is given to us right before cyrus finishes them. Cyrus, knowing horses are scared of the sight and smell of camels, used the train of camels he had transporting his provisions against the cavalry.
Still, it is hard to see what he truly. One has to remember why herodotus brought him up in the first place. It seems to be said almost in passing that Croesus was the first of the barbarians of whom we know who subdued some Greeks lined to the payment of tribute. Before Croesus rule all the Greeks were free (1.6). That Croesus was the first to enslave greeks is mentioned some 20 sections before his story begins in earnest. And a notable detail about how Croesus treated threats to his rule stands nearly an afterthought as Herodotus finishes his main narrative about him. A half-brother of his led a faction against him when he was to ascend the throne. For this, Croesus tortured him to death, drawing him across a carding comb (1.92). We do not hear much about the people building Lydias empire.
Herodotos, bk 6, logos 19 - livius
Once again I have put together a write piece of writing that sounds like a really ambitious 8th grader trying to have heady thoughts while distracted watching. League of Legends tournament. Below, you will find an attempt to grapple with why herodotus puts the stories he tells in the order he does. I have done my best to reproduce those stories so you can make your own decisions, but I have added a heavy amount of commentary and editorializing because Im trying to discover what I myself think. I do not think badly of the end result, clunky though it may be, because whoa that was an awesome combo to finish player Dr3dEnD0ll. I herodotus almost allows us to think Croesus, king of Lydia, a harmless fool. His haughty attitude in trying to be declared the happiest of all men indicates a tyrannical disposition, as his wealth and empire are simply so glorious. Attempts to test oracles and bribe the gods also fall under this category.